Reclaiming The Divine Masculine To Restore The Divine Feminine

Welcome to another episode where Kim and I discuss the growing divine feminine movement and its pitfalls…

…as many women who are in this movement are struggling to turn ideas into reality, have a lack of internal authority and are using ‘the masculine’ as a dumping ground for traits that are not liked or deemed to be ‘feminine’.

In the first half, we examine why and how our masculine part is often projected outwards, and in the second, we challenge the idea of labelling certain characteristics as masculine or feminine, emphasising the need to own our shadows (that which we think we are not) to reclaim our authentic masculine energy – which naturally restores our feminine energy.

We also define and question the patriarchy, our role in its creation and sustanance, and explore what’s needed to dissolve the trauma preventing us from fully embracing and unifying both energies within.

Chapters

• 0:00 Reclaiming the Divine Masculine
• 13:03 Healing the Wounded Masculine and Feminine

Transcript

Melanie: 0:26

Hello, hello everyone. A very warm welcome back to this episode of the podcast where me and Kim will be discussing reclaiming the divine masculine to restore the divine feminine.

Kim: 0:40

Kim, hello welcome, thank you. Thank you for having me back. I'm really excited about this conversation, actually, because this is one of the one of the standout things that drew me to doing your womb medicine woman training all those years ago, because you were doing something completely different, which I love.

Melanie: 1:01

I've heard that from quite a few people, actually for a few women, like, because I've been talking about the divine masculine. So yeah, let's, I'll just do a little intro so everyone knows what we're what we're going to be talking about. So there is a growing movement, a huge growing movement called the divine feminine, the rise of the divine feminine, rise of the feminine and generally more talk about the divine feminine, and this seems to be all about the return of women to their power, live in cyclical essence and feeling and trust in intuition rather than sort of doing and operating from head. However, with all our human things as humans fumbling around here on earth trying to work out, there's something missing. So this is this movement has been going on for really quite some time and, in my opinion, I don't think it's working. So there's something missing.

Melanie: 2:05

And what I see many women doing, both in the trainings and the circles I've run, is they can connect, reconnect with intuition. They can operate from a place of feeling and intuition rather than doing. They're really struggling to turn ideas into action and they're really struggling with internal authority, and the other theme I'm seeing that goes along with this, that really runs with it, is a projection outwards of their masculine nature. So that's what we're going to be talking about today and all the nuances of that, and, yeah, just giving some air and light and oxygen to it so that everyone listening can see if that resonates and see if that's relevant. Yeah, what do you think, kim?

Kim: 3:03

Yeah, spot on. I really think this is something that I'm also seeing of just this almost focus on divine feminine and, in a way, turning away from what people deem as masculine. You know, it's a very interesting thing because, in my mind, those two things have to be integrated in order for us to not only create ideas and then birth them in the world through doing, but there is very much a focus on divine feminine and only divine feminine.

Melanie: 3:41

Yeah, the split. I mean that's the nature, that says the nature of our reality in this time space where everything split good, bad, female, male, this that and really what we're aiming for is integration, but the stuff that keeps it separate. It's separate to begin with, and then it's got trauma. Basically that separates it. So, yeah, where do you want to start Kim?

Kim: 4:08

I think I'd like to start with just the. I hear a lot of people say, not only women, but I hear everyone kind of talk about I'm in my masculine or I'm in my feminine and kind of weave, as if these two things are separate, because we've also been given almost like a list of what is considered feminine traits and masculine traits. I'd like to start there, I think, okay.

Melanie: 4:40

Nice place the Instagram lists of the femininers is the masculine.

Melanie: 4:45

Is that Okay?

Melanie: 4:46

So, in the absence of really being able to embody, feel stuff and feel stuff, we do make shit up, and that's what I feel like we've been doing with feminine and masculine, and what I'm seeing is that the feminine sort of list of traits is becoming something of a pedestal feeling, regulating softness, intuition, connection, and the masculine is kind of being used as a dumping ground, as operating from one's head, doing pushing, disconnection harsh, hard, and what I think is happening is Women are coming to connection with their gifts and all the states that aren't that are being deemed masculine, and what's happening is it projects our energy out of those parts of us that we don't like, which pushes. If you imagine pushing parts of our energy out and if you imagine loads of women around the world doing this, we're forming this thing called patriarchy, which we've all co-created, and once we realise we've co-created it, we can dismantle it one by one. So, in my, masculine usually means I'm pushing and I'm in my head, and I'm in my feminine usually means I'm being and I'm feeling in my flow.

Melanie: 6:35

So in that state, the feminine is putting itself on a pedestal and we're putting the masculine as a dumping ground and a power under. So that's where we've been. We've been women or feminine as power under, kind of subjugated, and men with power over, like in a general sense. And then what we're trying to in order to kind of correct it, what we're doing as women is trying to gain power over rather than come to power within, and it's creating this dissonance and the masculine's becoming a dumping ground. And I know men that can feel it and saying like we wish to take responsibility. And I'm saying, look, I teach you to my courses. And they're saying like be great if you could step that up.

Melanie: 7:28

So I'm trying to get that out into the world more. It's going into the book as well, because it's not one it's. I mean, we do teach it in the womb medicine, woman training, but it's the hardest thing, it's the toughest module. We have the most resistance to it because we've a lot of us have trauma with men in this life. There could have been sexual abuse absent father, overpowering father, non feeling father, compliant father, sitting in the corner reading the newspaper for 30 years, and also all the rape in the world or the war is usually perpetuated in an outward sense by men. So you know there have been. There are things in this reality that do contribute to our projection of our own masculine parts and make it a dumping ground. So I get it is what I'm saying, everyone listening, all the women who are doing that. I get it. I do get it. However, we do have to move forwards.

Kim: 8:33

Yeah, Otherwise we're staying stuck in this cycle. So I want to get something really clear on something now, Because I feel like you know, patriarchy, the masculine men are just kind of grouped together, not by everyone, but sometimes in you know, whether it's posts, whether it's things I'm reading, there seems to be like just a grouping together of all those things and therefore, again, the projection outside of us of like I am not this, this is what it looks like, project onto that. So I want to get clear about the difference and separating out patriarchy from what is masculine, from what is men.

Melanie: 9:15

Okay. So patriarchy I've actually done a little definition here so that can be really clear and patriarchy, to me anyway, is external authority, power over rigid hierarchical structures and anything that feel doesn't feel as we have defined it, structured. So, yeah, there can be, like you might call it, positives and negatives to that, but I think that's what it is External authority, rigid hierarchical structures, power outside, power over and a general disconnect to spirit, spiritual or metaphysical and earth. So that's patriarchy. And I know plenty of women that are playing that out. Plenty External authority waiting for others permission, who are operating in rigid hierarchical structures. Maybe they don't feel right, but they're still operating like that and just flip in from power over to power under.

Melanie: 10:26

So we are literally all responsible for that. Masculinity in its truest form great, bring it on, bring it back, bring it up, bring it in Wonderful. And its truest form. And men, great, like. Yeah, that's the difference, men, we've got the gender. Masculinity is the essence within us that we deem to be masculine and project out. Of course, men project their feminine, but that's the other side of the coin.

Melanie: 11:03

So yeah, yeah, that's. Is that clear what the difference is?

Kim: 11:07

Yeah, yeah, and I just want to clarify something, because you've used the phrase power over or power under, so for anyone listening who doesn't know what that is, what do you mean by that?

Melanie: 11:18

Okay. So power over or power under is generally what we're playing out in the world and within our own psyche. So if you think about let's have an internal example so when we're kids and we suffer trauma, we're in a power under position. Someone's got power over us. And when we grow up and we've got that unprocessed stuff in, we're operating from a template of feeling like we have power under or someone has power over us.

Melanie: 11:55

Okay, and when we're healing across timelines stop me if I'm going too metaphysical, by the way and when we're healing across timelines, what we're looking for is where have I been in positions of power under? I been hurt or felt like I couldn't do something because of somebody else, some sort of societal structures, some sort of organization and where have I also been in a power over position where I've been telling people what to do, hurting people, asking people to adhere to my ideals, goals, structures, and we tend to be flipping between the two before we can heal them and decorate them and realize actually, power is love and love is within. Then we've no need to exert our power over others. Yeah.

Kim: 12:51

Okay, thank you. Thank you for clarifying that, which brings me to my next, my next kind of observation question. I've noticed, you know again coming back to this like listing of. So we talk about divine feminine, divine masculine, the wounded feminine, the wounded masculine. So I just want to know your thoughts on this and kind of how we can then start to heal those aspects of the wounded feminine, the wounded masculine, what that looks like, rather than listing traits that we believe are toxic behaviors or wounded aspects of the feminine or masculine.

Melanie: 13:38

Okay, horse, horse sound. I've, actually I've got a list here yeah seems to be doing the rounds, yeah, so.

Kim: 13:50

I'll give you a kind of what people seem to be like, categorizing under the wounded feminine, which is insecure, needy, codependent, manipulative, inauthentic over emotional victim mentality. And then, well, yeah, this is kind of my hope, that's my whole point. And then the wounded masculine which is controlling, aggressive, withdrawn, avoids confrontation, overly competitive, abusive, unstable, judgmental or domineering.

Melanie: 14:24

There we go, nice dumping ground. That's just people, I don't know. I find those lists are very unhelpful actually, but helpful for you to read it out, thank you, but I guess I want everyone to do who's listening is just to just a question. Things like that, when you see them because I've been you working as a trauma therapist for years and that's just people like women could be withdrawn.

Kim: 14:54

Women can be very aggressive, usually passive, aggressive managers, usually a bit more outwardly aggressive, but yeah, I just find it fascinating that somehow we've categorized to those traits and those behaviors as being masculine or being feminine.

Melanie: 15:14

Yeah, it's a yeah, so let's just put. Put that to one side, because I mean, how is it help anyway? Yeah just at the end of the day, we've we've got to get into our work anyway, so what don't see how it's helping? Yeah.

Kim: 15:34

Okay, so what's needed now?

Melanie: 15:36

What's needed. It would be very bloody helpful if we could all own our shadow. It really would. So what we're going to do, what we do in the womb, medicine, woman training, the work I do with women, the work I've done with myself, the work we've done together, is to own what the very things that we think we are not.

Melanie: 15:56

So to look at what is you can use the words if you want what is? What is masculinity? What is toxic masculinity? Let's take the judgment off and how we're doing it and just let's, let's loosen the reins and let's just go for it. That's what I like to do in groups and with people. Never mind say what you want, just get it out on the table, bash the penis, draw it, chuck it out the window, chop it up if you want.

Melanie: 16:24

Just let's get out really what you think of men, separate them, that from experience with men, separate that from masculinity, separate that from the true masculine energy. And having done that, my god, it's so, so powerful. Because if we think about our projected energy, even the bits you know, the bits that we don't like there's bits of our energy in that. There's bits of there's gifts, there's bits of our heart, there's parts of our soul, we're fragmenting ourselves. So once we bring that back, kind of dust it off of our traumatic experiences, of our split consciousness of what we think we are and we aren't, it is the most I can bring myself to tears every time I talk about this. It is the most supportive, beautiful, clear, enduring divine love. I feel. It's just beautiful.

Kim: 17:34

Yeah.

Melanie: 17:34

And it's, it's part of that's part of me, that's part of every single person listening here and bringing it back. I was in, I felt ecstasy, and this was no plant medicines, no substances, no, this. It was in a like a soul session with my friend and we both got it at the same time, so it was for me. It came in as this crystalline fallacy, so it being penetrated by God. It was and I don't use that word lightly, it was just beautiful and it resides within me and what happened is my feminine energy, if you could call it that, went on a deep, deep, deep level and it's been integrating ever since. It was actually in this building that it happened. I was in Chiang Mai, in Thailand. I'm literally on fourth floor now, but I was on the second floor but in the same room, so I'm probably about 20 meters above where.

Melanie: 18:44

I was when it happened, which is uncanny, but it's. It seemed to hold for me and it seems to hold for most women. I work with a sense of authority which becomes then internal, yeah, and the ability to alchemy energy into matter. So it lit up my womb, it really lit up my womb, and so it enables us to truly birth consciousness, to bring consciousness through our body, through our womb center, and to take it forward, to bring it forward into matter, to actualize it. So, if we're thinking of all these women that have got all these lovely ideas that are intuitive and soft and flowing, fabulous, fabulous, massive round for applause to that, well done. Here's the next stage, that's all. It's just the next step, and it can be really hard because sometimes the trauma of abuse, projections, lack of too much of need processing and that's often the case that needs honour in first so that we can bring that back.

Melanie: 19:56

But it's lovely, it's beautiful, it's juicy, it's got nothing to do with men, masculinity, toxic. There's toxic that split that and it becomes one energy. That's why, when you read out those lists and I know we talk about this from time to time as well, have you seen this? You know you highlight things. It's just it's bizarre, because it's one energy, it doesn't. There is no divine feminine to me, there is no divine masculine, because if they're split they're not in their divine state, divine meaning, original.

Melanie: 20:38

Yeah, so there is unification and of course, in the mix there are those things, and maybe we've come to this reality to split them out and see them really clearly, and part of coming home is to integrate them. But there's, you know, it really negates and neutralises this. Oh, you know, going from fly when feeling in our feminine, to then trying to put structures together for our work, say, and going into that, and then feeling disconnected, so having to go back to the flowy state or the feeling being state. You don't get that, it's just all one and it's just more like, okay, what's needed right now? So, yeah, that's what's needed. It can be hard, but it's fabulous. Some women have felt like so I've got, you know, I feel I've got this crystalline phallus within me. Other women feel like they've got a big old set of balls. When they get their back a big old set of balls, so it can come back different ways in different felt senses and different essences, but the main thing is to get it back because it is part of all of us. Yeah.

Kim: 21:57

And actually, mel, you saying that is just kind of what it did, was it like triggered this thing of remembering you know I always think of? I was kind of thinking of Glastonbury and like the red and the white spring and how people always talk about the red or the white spring and the two springs but a lot of the time they don't talk about how those springs joined together to create the black spring. And that, for me, was what you were describing is the coming together and how that is natural and will always flow. They don't flow separate from each other, they always come together.

Melanie: 22:37

Yeah, and I think, just as you were talking as well, I've realised that you know it's quite a young state to also separate things. So you know, when we're about, we've got a daughter, she's about five or six, isn't she? Yeah? So is she there at the point where she's like this is wrong, this is right, this is this Like we develop a sense of morality.

Kim: 22:59

This is kind, this is not yeah.

Melanie: 23:02

We go through a stage in life where we develop a natural sense of morality and things are right or wrong for us, and that's normal. However, in our current times there's a lot of developmental getting stuck because of attachment disruption. You know, we've been parented by humans and we mess up. And so, donald Trump, for example, you withers or against us. I think that's all the American presidents have said, isn't it? You either withers or you're against us. You're either right or you're wrong.

Melanie: 23:33

That's a very young developmental state and, of course, if we're in that stage of things are right and wrong or black and white, it's just we need to do the development tool work that helps unstick our psyche from that stage so that we can then go and do the divine, feminine, masculine work and integrate them. So it's not just like a straightforward one session. Yeah, sometimes it is sometimes as deeper work to it and sometimes you know, the ultimate integration for me, I think, is looking across timelines and and integrating the trauma or triangle states of victim, perpetrator, rescuer. So that needs integrating as well. So I guess it's in. It's also in the midst of lots of splits, lots of dissociation within our consciousness, and integration seems to be the key and coming home to oneness. Yeah, I mean I was going to say.

Kim: 24:37

you know what does that state look like, but I feel like you've answered that, so is there anything else that you want to add to that?

Melanie: 24:46

I think I can just describe what that state feels like with these two seemingly separate energies integrated. Easy, yeah, it feels easier. It feels easier and I feel this constant sense of support, that so being able to feel that support from within and that authority from within again not over, just a sense of my own connection to source and self and what needs to come through, then it feels easier. It's been 10 years now since it came back, so it's hard to remember, but it feels easier. I feel more whole, which is the goal of healing really.

Melanie: 25:25

So yeah, pretty, thank you Mel.

Melanie: 25:31

So, yes, if you are interested, everyone, we do this in the WU medicine, woman training and if you don't want to do that, you can come and do that work one to one with either myself or Kim, and it does help business. It does help us in business because, yeah, we don't want to do it in a disconnected way. We do want to do it in a connected way, but we need that crystal and fallacy back ladies. It's fabulous. All right, ok, thank you, kim. Thank you everyone for listening. I hope it was useful. Again, I'll put a post on Instagram once it is out and I would love to hear your comments. Otherwise, I will see you next time.